Curse

Kusandaa · Nov 14, 2007, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

lmao @ everyone complaining about pets not leaving exploitable corpses. If an exploitable corpse from a dead pet is so integral to your build, it's bad. Also, you're bad.

It's not as "integral" as it helps, however. Take a look at ToPK b/p groups, has been running for ages and even though it's pretty effective, still has flaws (ie. isn't suitable for every area and doesn't tear everything down apart like UB, 'cause of the need of bunched up enemies - hence why Splinter was used to buff damage when HM was introduced). 5 b/p's, orders, MM, monk.

The b/p's kill the stuff. MM makes minions out of the foes and pets' bodies; minion wall prevents stuff from aggroing the team, orders buff the dmg. and the monk heals everything without too much difficulty... unless your team sucks (which happens often, mind you).

It's not ESSENTIAL to have pets, but it really helps; even with the 3-times-in-15-seconds SR for the necros, helps with e. managament - at least they haven't nerfed that (yet?) - and with the MM, who gets bodies "faster" depending on when pets die.

Is that build bad by itself? No. It's not an exploit either. Does it make US bad? No. Doesn't make us leet or whatever, it's just another farming build.

To me, the fact pets doesn't leave exploitable corpse doesn't make any sense. We're not talking about a minion here, or a spirit, or a mechanical foe. We're talking about a creature, much like your regular foe or human.

CyberMesh0 · Nov 14, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Ok so assassins were killed.. again.
RIP ToPK.
Now that they addressed the INITIAL SR problem, can we see about reverting the original attempt to fix it?

Scary Raebbit · Nov 14, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

hell yeah! why not just give Pve a ultra powered single spell that can kill everything in the screen (as long as you use it first) and remove all the other skills in the game! its not like we want to have fun or anything, we just wanna kill.

Didn't know pets and their corpses were such an integral part of some PvE build. Sorry for stepping on your toes trying to have fun in the easiest part of the game.
Last I heard, pet corpses were used for Mallyx and for Tombs. Tombs can be beat by a balanced group, but heaven forbid that ever happens. Mallyx got his nerf, but I wouldn't know, I don't really care about wastes of time.
Necros lost energy machines, oh noes, they might actually have to use SoLS.
And for whenever you are in a place with no corpses, run something else than MM.
Not like a Ranger brought one with a serious BM bar and was hoping, "I hope that my pet dies so I can leave a corpse for the nice Necro."

CHunterX · Nov 14, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

lmao @ everyone complaining about pets not leaving exploitable corpses. If an exploitable corpse from a dead pet is so integral to your build, it's bad. Also, you're bad.

Its not integral, it just makes Beastmaster Rangers more a tad more useless for PvE. As if Beastmastery needs any more hits against it.

Inde · Nov 14, 2007, 02:03 AM // 02:03

I'm going to address you all as if you are children, don't blame me but after deleting so many posts I can't help it. CALM DOWN. Any insult or flamebaiting will be deleted. Stay on topic and contributing. Do not turn this into a flame thread or it will be closed.

RSGashapon · Nov 14, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

*filters out all the bitching, ranting, crying and elitist jackassery*

Update: Removed all PvP elements from the game.
Changes: Reverted all unnecessary skill "enhancements" made over the last two years.
Additions: Granted 500k to all accounts with <100k in storage as compensation.

This is the ONLY new build GW needs.

I post in jest... the update isn't that bad guys. Sheesh. Every time one of these things rolls around, you people think Anet's just committed hara-kiri with our beloved game.

ensoriki · Nov 14, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

@people who whine about Tombs B/P build getting nerfed: Less QQ more pew pew. Make new builds, or...oh wait - go balanced? Yeah, I know it is unthinkable. Besides, MM necromancer = fail. Necro can do so much more, why waste his potential on babysitting bunch of moving corpses?

Soul Reaping not getting energy from spirits - good. N/Rt > kktnxbaibai
true
Ineptitude nerf - whatever, learn to weapon switch.
Fact.
EW - good.
WoH nerf - uh...yeah, why not. It's not like it isn't viable anymoar.
It still is, in a sense as far as I can see
Assassin nerf - good. I hate 'em

Not cool >.> Whats to hate (theres more than instagib you know!)
Magebane Shot - holy hell. This pwns. And to people who compare it to Distracting - IT'S NOT THE SAME! Distracting disables SKILL, Magebane disables SPELL. And Magebane can't be blocked, which is important in PvP (in PvE you hardly need interupts anyway)
Barrage - nice, but I don't use that skill, neither does anyone in PvP, so can't say I care.

Wow, umm...well maybe you should use your pet for for like....attacking? Not for fueling the MM? If you want corpses, make some, don't use your pet.
Another fact.

I agree with pretty much everything you said except the sin hate (Im using Resurrection signet on Horns of the ox!)

I was just about to make a PVE Pet Build for my ranger (and im already considering a assassin version =P)

When I saw the new build thing...

man am I sorry I updated.

Hott Bill · Nov 14, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

WTS My sins Black + White Dyed Vabbian Armor. Anyone?

This sin nerf (or execution) is total bull, Impale shouldn't have been nerfed to 1 second. Sins are executioners, they go in fast, kill, and get the hell out.

*Tries to kill lv3 tiger with horns of the ox at 16 dagger mastery*
*Goes to make a pizza waiting for impale to activate.*

A/W Shadow sins are dead, But they didn't touch SoJ signet sins.

Good for casters, bad for assassins. Srry Cleavage, Hybrid Theory.

EDIT!!!!!!!!
OMG RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO CHANGE BLACK LOTUS STRIKE TO AN OFFHAND AGAIN!

Dark-NighT · Nov 14, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Ok the only thing i really dont understand is the pet nerf, its made out of flesh and blood, means exploitable and just food for the b/p teams down at the tombs, no matter the only enemies over there that dont have a corpse are the banished dream riders, everything else is still MM food, just a little less.

My sin got lucky, no nerf for me and because im generally pve with her it'll probably stay the way it is now.

No more soul reaping from spirits, i couldnt give a damn, now just take that timer off and rock on.

WoH was a bit overpowered, but still good, and the fact that menhlo has it now in eye of the nerf made it just a little better.

All in all it isnt that bad for me, and with soul reaping i will hardly notice a difference, got way to much energy to start with so im good.

Snow Bunny · Nov 14, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Who cares about EW getting hit badly?

Unless you're a farmer trapping, or a Spiritway scrub, you seriously don't care.

WoH was too powerful

Necros have enough energy as it is. You have Signet of Lost Souls ffs. That should be on 90% of necros bars. QQ moar

Who the hell cares about the fact that the pets no longer leave exploitable corpses. Except the shit N/R minion master builds, this doesn't affect pve.

GG Assassins. Always been a terrible class, GG on being nerfed into shit. Good riddance.

Honestly, people, there isn't much to complain about here.

FFS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

Actually, PvE has been more difficult than PvP for quite some time. In PvE, players actually have to rely on themselves and others to overcome obstacles as opposed to Divine Intervention by the devs to fix their problems for them. I'm only referring to the primary PvP base, not the good players at the very top: the ones that have always been able to overcome trouble builds without requiring dev assistance.

Are you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retarded? /ragequits

Chthon · Nov 14, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by øln

Did exploitable player pet corpses make that big of a difference in PvE?

Huge. Barrage/Pet teams totally and completely relied on it. I cannot image how they're going to remain viable...

No Soul Reaping from spirits:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter

About damn time. Now just return it to its original function otherwise...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Oh good. You finally listened and took spirits off the SR. Now just take off that timer and all will be well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberMesh0

Now that they addressed the INITIAL SR problem, can we see about reverting the original attempt to fix it?

[QUOTE=Aera Lure]Necros not gaining energy from spirits makes sense. It always did. The timer, however, makes none. Hope it is considered to simply returning SR to what it used to be, sans being affected by spirits.
I agree completely. To reiterate, in case the big bold capital letters got missed last time: No soul reaping on spirits is good, NOW GET RID OF THE DAMN TIMER.

We grudgingly tolerated it when it served some purpose. But we still HATED IT. We still hate it now. It doesn't serve any purpose any longer. So get rid of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Quote:

Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing.

Then they nerf it what a joke.

Even reduced back to its pre-buff state, WoH is still a much better skill than the nerfed LoD. So don't complain.

If you really must complain, complain about him not having Heal Party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Pets not leaving corpses also make no sense whatsoever, as pets are an animal, obviously. Its not like pets needed another reason not to use them in a PvE setting. This was the main reason to use pets in PvE, and that is saying something. To limit their use in a specific PvP team build, I'd think a PvP-only change to that mechanic could have been made. That would be preferred to some clunky mechanism that now makes pets leave no exploitable corpse.

Agree completely.

Quote:

Just looking for consistency, not odd timer mechanisms and pets that are made of non-organic materials.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Full Metal X · Nov 14, 2007, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

lol, when I was in the Corps we called that adapting and overcoming, which is something most PvPers should probably learn to adopt and quit relying on the devs to bail them defeat 'hard' cookie cutter opponents.

no biggie though, PvEers will complain, but eventually adapt and overcome (or continue the exodus elsewhere). I, personally, take my pet everywhere and wouldn't think of using him in this way, but that has nothing to do with uber tactics, it's a lil thing called roleplaying... :-)

Isn't using a build that doesn't use corpses called adapting, and to me it just sounds like your being too stubborn to change from a MM rofl, leave the MMing to Olias.

Aera Lure · Nov 14, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Doesnt the Mhenlo LoD swapped to WoH validate the notion that LoD's casting time makes the skill too ineffective? Also simply making that change doesnt make him any more capable of dealing with the AoE and mass degen situations faced in HM. Adding Heal Party wouldnt do any good either as the AI cant energy maintain and prioritize. I suppose I might have tried Holy Haste in place of Divine Intervention as the AI doesnt use that skill well either, and left LoD in to see if things were then somewhat better. That said, this particular change is preferred to simply having left him as he was.

Re-nerfing WoH a little, well, sure, ok. How about buffing a few of the truly unused heal elites a bit so they all are on a more even par? Might be fun to actually have several reasonable choices for a heal bar. Same goes for buffs to some dozen or more elites I dont think I have ever seen on anyone's bars across multiple professions.

Necros not gaining energy from spirits makes sense. It always did. The timer, however, makes none. Hope it is considered to simply returning SR to what it used to be, sans being affected by spirits.

Pets not leaving corpses also make no sense whatsoever, as pets are an animal, obviously. Its not like pets needed another reason not to use them in a PvE setting. This was the main reason to use pets in PvE, and that is saying something. To limit their use in a specific PvP team build, I'd think a PvP-only change to that mechanic could have been made. That would be preferred to some clunky mechanism that now makes pets leave no exploitable corpse.

Just looking for consistency, not odd timer mechanisms, pets that are made of non-organic materials, and the same skills getting slight buffs and nerfs over and over.

Burst Cancel · Nov 14, 2007, 02:08 AM // 02:08

I'm laughing really hard right now; although I can't decide which is funnier: the nerfs, or the QQing in this thread.

Anet ftw, seriously.

... where was the nerf to Ursan though?

Sekkira · Nov 14, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Its not integral, it just makes Beastmaster Rangers more a tad more useless for PvE. As if Beastmastery needs any more hits against it.

If your beastmaster Ranger relied on your pet to die, you are bad.

yesitsrob · Nov 14, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Necromancer
Soul Reaping: no longer gains any benefit from Spirits.

took your time, but got there eventually
_

Decent update, also a lot of you fail immensely. get better.

insticnt · Nov 14, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

yawn... buildwars.. stop nerfing every skill that i like and just improve all those stinky skills that people have never used. I could name atleast 30 skills in each class that you might as well just remove. Then we can just take away the skills that are decent.. Just to make a average joe game.

I would like to see an overall average skill balance, but with alot of choices that stand out with some sort of team combo being used. I agree some of these skills are over powered. Then again, i like to play in a game that you can abuse the more powerfull skills and Dominate as a Team.

Yawn i could go on and on but i guess it wouldn't really matter. The Game Updates suck cause all they updates are nerfs. Ok, maybe a few updates once in a while. But 80% nerf, and 20% boost of skills.

Just throwing out my 2 two cents for you guild wars devs.

Velise_Snowtorm · Nov 14, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

The only reason anyone in PvE cares about the pets leaving exploitable corpses are B/P teams (Barrage/pet). They're used to generate a minion army quickly, most often to complete areas like Tombs, Urgoz, Sorrow's Furnace and FoW. Now I agree that it's not a necessity to complete those areas using that kind of set-up, just B/P teams are fast and generally foolproof for PuGs to manage.

Truthfully I haven't used my ranger's pet in ages. I used to want to get the Rainbow Phoenix when it was first announced, but now I figure why bother striving for it when I'll most likely never use it on my bar anyways?

And Horns. Booo.

A11Eur0 · Nov 14, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Speaking as someone whose main character is a necro, what would you need pet corpses for in PvE? People will bitch and moan about anything on an internet forum, won't they?

yOu've never MM'd in tombs with B/P group have you?

Pets are now worthless. Only use is in a beastmaster build, and I'd rather just go regular d-shot ranger or splinter barrage.

And splinter/barrage isn't that bad either...I tried it today and it's hard to tell much difference in most mobs...just cant waste huge piles like in some of the screenies on here.

CyberNigma · Nov 14, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

If your beastmaster Ranger relied on your pet to die, you are bad.

Yeah, from an RP standpoint I never use my pets this way on any of my characters. That doesn't mean I want them to start imposing RP rules on everyone else just because I play that way.

In fact, i play PvE, and used to play PvP with a W/R beastmaster. Is it an uber-build? No, it actually sucks compared to most. Is it fun? Well, it IS a game :-).

I agree with you from that standpoint, though.